Fools Rush In…And We Are The Fools

As we recently explained in this article, in order for us to maintain the moral high ground over feminism, it’s critical for the MHRM to be diligent in policing our own & call out those who identify as MHRAs but espouse views that run contrary to MHRM principles. Usually that’s not a difficult thing to do because the person is a total stranger & they have just expressed something hateful, so you don’t really care too much about sparing their feelings, but what does an MHRA do when someone you know, have been working with, & consider an ally, perhaps even a friend, gradually reveals themselves to hold views or beliefs that run contrary to to those that you have been fighting for & force you into a position where you can no longer in good conscience support their activism efforts?

You nut up & call them out just like normal, that’s what.

Sadly, this is not just a hypothetical situation for us, it’s a real, & very regrettable, situation.

Right, enough sugar coating, time for all of the unsightly details…

Several weeks ago, Men’s Rights Sydney was contacted by someone, let’s call him “Peter” (not his real name) who was keen to start up his own Men’s Rights Group in Melbourne, Australia called, appropriately enough, “Men’s Rights Melbourne”. We spoke at length to this person over Skype many times &, over a period of 2 or 3 weeks, gathered a pretty good picture of his views, goals, & experience as an MHRA, or at least we thought we did. So, what with us being charitable types & always keen to assist people in doing real world activism in support of men & boys, we did what we could to help him out, advise him, & just generally help him to get his web site off the ground & point him in the right general direction. Can’t hurt right?

Red flags started popping up almost immediately. About a week after his website was established we noticed that an article had appeared on his site that had statements in it that….well, let’s just say we could not support them.

We caught that one quickly however, raised our concerns with him, and he agreed to take the article down. It has now, to the best of my knowledge, been deleted & will never see the light of day, but it was something of a sobering shock to us & seemed to come completely out of left field.

Perhaps naively, we put that down to the fact that, at this early stage of it’s evolution, “Peter” was running Men’s Rights Melbourne all by himself & the lack of a sounding board meant that dubious judgement calls were not being critiqued before publication. We counselled him against repeating these kinds of views, at least in the MHRM context, & offered to act as his sounding board in future should he ever be in doubt about something he wants to publish.

Fast forward a couple of weeks to 22nd April and, to our shock & extreme displeasure, David Futrelle posts this article on his site. Our first reaction was to doubt the validity of the claim (I mean, what MHRA in his or her right mind would do THAT?) but after contacting Men’s Rights Melbourne & asking about it, he admitted to sending it. He hedged by saying that it was his birthday & he was drunk at the time (not a good sign) but he did send that email.

To say that we were a bit unhappy about that is like saying that the Pacific Ocean has a bit of water in it. I found out quickly that the only thing that pisses me off more than reading an article critical of the MHRM penned by Futrelle is when he pens an article critical of the MHRM but actually has legitimate grounds for doing so, & this is quite possibly the only time in his entire career that that has happened.

We now had severe doubts about associating with this guy & even more about helping him to establish his site, but even at this stage we thought we could salvage the situation by appealing to his sense of honour. We urged him to take the high road, apologise to Futrelle, & to never drink & email again. He refused to apologise but assured us he would not email while drunk again. We also urged him to run articles & ideas past us in future because it was obvious that he needed someone to vet his work but he was noncommittal about that. It was obvious to us by this stage, & with the benefit of hindsight, that we had not properly vetted this guy before agreeing to help him & that this was a serious mistake on our part, but one that we will never make again. Ever. Fools rush in indeed &, in this case, those fools were us.

In-depth internal discussions about the situation ensued but before we could even come to a decision, we got a double whammy.

First, we come across this tweet.

that1

 

Then not 15 minutes later, this article appeared on the Men’s Rights Melbourne site (link no longer available). Like his earlier faux pas, both are clearly ridiculous & certainly not in line with the views of the vast majority of the MHRM, or in line with reality for that matter.

That was it for us. We had tried to reason with him but we could no longer ignore the fact that this guy was a loose cannon & that we were never going to be able to endorse his views. Unless he agreed to step down & hand Men’s Rights Melbourne over to somebody else, we had no choice but to sever all ties with him & denounce any & all articles that we could not, in good conscience, support. We put that ultimatum to him.

Unfortunately “Peter” refused to step down & instead elected to shut down Men’s Rights Melbourne entirely. We would have preferred to see him hand it off to somebody else but, considering the circumstances, we were ultimately satisfied by this.

“Peter” is not a bad person but, even though he obviously has a sincere desire to help alleviate the suffering that so many men & boys endure these days, it does not change the fact that it is obvious to us that his judgement is simply not reliable in this context. The hard truth is that, while he is entitled to his opinions & views, we simply cannot endorse them or be associated with him.

That is all,

Everyone at Men’s Rights Sydney

*Thanks to Dana from AVFM for the Image 

UPDATE – 4/5/2014

Since posting this article, we have also sent an email to David Futrelle explaining to him the backstory behind the email that was sent to him & our views about it. We are fully aware that Futrelle may attempt to use this as a platform for criticism of us but we are willing to take that chance. The way we see it is that it’s not really about him but about us, about holding ourselves to a higher moral standard than those who oppose us hold themselves to.

The email we sent reads as follows…

Mr Futrelle,

My name is Tom Voltz, I am a co-founder of the Australian MHRM organisation called Men’s Rights Sydney (MRS). I am writing to you in regards to the insulting email that you received from Men’s Rights Melbourne (MRM) about a month ago.
We have come to understand, both because of the email he sent to you & several other things, that the person running Men’s Rights Melbourne was not capable of conducting himself with an appropriate level of professionalism for somebody in his role. At the time of that email, Men’s Rights Melbourne was only a few weeks old & consisted of just one person but, as soon as this became clear to us we, along with several other MHRAs, took what steps we reasonably could to ensure that Men’s Rights Melbourne would be run by somebody that is capable of conducting themselves with a level of professionalism that commensurate with their position within the wider MHRM.
Men’s Rights Sydney, & a large proportion of the wider MHRM, do not condone the type of childish personal attack that was contained within that email. We are more than happy to engage in serious, even heated, debate but the sort of email that was sent to you is not productive & is not something that we condone.
Although Men’s Rights Sydney was not officially affiliated with Men’s Rights Melbourne, we have convinced the person who ran it to step down as leader & he has since elected to shut down the site completely.
If you would like a more detailed description of the situation, you can read the following article on our site:
FYI, we will also be publishing the contents of this email publicly on our site, viewable at that same URL.
Sincerely,
Tom Voltz
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38 thoughts on “Fools Rush In…And We Are The Fools

  1. Pingback: Fools Rush In…And We Are The Fools | Men's Rights Australia

  2. Dear god. The dude is semiliterate – bad grammar, TXT-speak, high-school level sentence structure, even multiple exclamation points for God’s sake. Even I write better than this person. Everything he says shows what a bad pick he is:

    “You made a matter which was private within the MRM, public to everyone following the MRM!?!?”

    Son, this “private matter” ceased to be a private matter the second you posted to manboobs under the name “Mens Right’s Melbourne”

    “It basically showed pictures of well known feminists that had very dark eyes. When someone is at peace, their eyes glow and when they are full of hate like feminists are, they are very very dark.”

    Christ. Superstitious claptrap. Unbelievable. Next he’ll be talking about aliens – or may be even demons. Is this person a christian fundamentalist?

    “i drank way to much on my birthday and came home, found out about manboobs having a go at u guys and avoiceformen and me being me sticking up for my mates i told manboobs.com where to go!”

    Try that on a judge when you have a drunk driving accident. Not. Even. Once. That’s what responsibility is all about. The shocking thing is not just that he did it, but that he doesn’t get it – he thinks “it was my birthday and I was drunk” makes it ok. (the lowercase ‘i’ is icing on the cake)

    Nup. No way. Let’s find a bloke living in Melbourne who can write like an adult, who is passionate, and who had his kids stolen off him by family services. Hopefully this person has enough honour to hand over the reins.

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    • u shouldn’t diss what he believe in! i can say that the mens rights issues piss me off 2. in this case… he was wasted and let everything go at manboobz,, he shouldn’t be ridicule for it and backing up by so call mens rights mates…5 stars for this guy (mensrightmelbourne). today we can’t express our anger cause it’s not allowed against feminst! this guy had balls where u shoudln’t support him for it! i look down on the ppl running mensrightsydney after how u throw him out for this… if i felt so positive regarding my views, i wish i had the guts to show it like this guy had! …

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  3. Don’t lie TV, I was spending at least 8 hours a day (full time) running mensrightsmelbourne.com for at least a month, i drank way to much on my birthday and came home, found out about manboobs having a go at u guys and avoiceformen and me being me sticking up for my mates i told manboobs.com where to go!

    I was happy to give the site to a new owner after I volunteered to step down but u HARASSED me for days about it!!! I wasn’t going to let u or avoiceformen choose the new owner for a site I worked so hard on, it was going to be me mate!

    In the end, i was sick of the harassment mate… i said i was giving it to someone else but u couldn’t wait so i turn the site off!

    If anyone was reading the paper in the 90s, there was at least 1000+ articles on “men make better bosses than women due to making decisions on logic compare to women on emotions”! U just can’t bring the subject up on the differences on how men and women work anymore where it’s class as hate speech today!

    Defender and I agreed to just let it slide where you are bringing up rubbish from 2 months ago! Next manboobs will make an article that he was won in closing down the mens rights melbourne.com… than all the feminist will repost it and it will go viral… great work mate!

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    • We’ve covered this mate. You are entitled to your opinion & we will even allow you to say your piece here. I’m sorry if you felt harassed, it was not our intention to make you feel that way, but I’ve explained why we couldn’t support your views, more than once. If you can’t accept that then I’m afraid we are just going to have to agree to disagree.

      As I’ve said, both in public & to you privately, we have nothing against you personally & don’t think you’re a bad guy by any means but the views you have expressed publicly, & still stand by, are simply not in line with the views of Men’s Rights Sydney, or the vast majority of the MHRM, & we have to make it clear, in public, that we do not endorse or agree with those views.

      Just the way it is mate.

      Liked by 1 person

      • You made a matter which was private within the MRM, public to everyone following the MRM!?!?

        Many Feminist website will jump all over this article. Just look at the Labour Party within Australia now that it’s been made public that they can’t get along! A DAMAGE REPUTATION is nearly impossible to fix and now u bringing this onto MRS. You are 2 stupid to even think something like this made public will HARM THE MRM?!?!

        Some things should be keep behind closed doors, the media tries their best to find out when celebrities and people in power movements stuff up! This is what feminist want to publish when the MRM stuff up and not like a local paper that some people wont read and forget about, this is on the INTERNET, where it’s in the public eye even years from now….

        For the public… I spoken to the leader of MRS (defender) about this days after my drunken episode. He was the one that told me NOT to say sorry and from what I gathered. thought it would be stupid to bring the issue up again publicly. He both wanted it to be sweep under the rug and behind closed doors! TV was the one that wanted to say sorry and make it public for everyone in the MRM to know about!

        BTW, the article that TV didn’t like was “The eyes never lie. The evil eyes of a feminist. ” It basically showed pictures of well known feminists that had very dark eyes. When someone is at peace, their eyes glow and when they are full of hate like feminists are, they are very very dark. It’s the same as criminals, their eyes are very dark! This is a morale I was brought up on and most of the population knows about and basic logical most of us forget! TV had never heard of this saying and think this one article should be taken down even tho it was the only article anyone in the MRM had fault with. I don’t expect everyone to agree with some of my articles!

        Who in the right mind in the MRM would publish something that could harm the MRM that was keep behind closed doors 2 months ago?!?!?

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      • TV’s quote: “Men’s Rights Sydney, or the vast majority of the MHRM, & we have to make it clear, in public, that we do not endorse or agree with those views.”

        Another lie… After talking to Defender (leader of Mens Right Sydney), he told me that AF4M weren’t really pissed off about any of my articles/tweet, it mainly had to do with my drunken behaviour which they basically got over within the next week except you! You took it to heart, harassed me for days about finding a new leader which i told you i was working on and when i left due to you harassing me like a whinny girlfriend, you than choose to direct your emotions it towards Defender for the last 2 months where I’m sure to shut u up, he agreed on this article!

        Now you are making out Defender is a hypocrite to the public, well done… Damage the MRM more why don’t you!!

        After talking to you on Skype about it tonight, you are still carrying a deep hatred of my drunken behaviour (2 months ago) which everyone including myself and the MRM want to forget and move on! 99% of the MRM around the world don’t read Manboobz regularly, so who cares what the loser thinks!

        For the record,out of all the FB groups which I posted to everyday (over 100,000 people) and talk about issues with, they all agree with my article. “the eyes never lie” which was taken from a feminine women website (copy/paste with more detail). Not one negative feedback on FB within the MRM. You are the only person still taking it to heart, no one else is!

        If someone can’t get over something within 2 months where i’m sure you guys reading this, know a friend that has done something stupid when they were on the piss who regretted their behaviour the next day! I believe you aren’t fit enough to be running the MRM in Sydney if you can’t move on from this mate! Your last 2/8 articles where about me, are you going to keep talking about me for the rest of the year or talk about Mens Rights issues???

        How would anyone feel if they had a work Xmas party, got way to drunk (where i’m sure most can relate too), regretted what they did, had a talk to your boss about it in private where you thought the right thing to do is to step down and leave, than 2 months later, your boss puts out a public “work newsletter” about your drunken Xmas party behaviour! I think any normal human being would be pissed off!!

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    • Ok I’ll reply your various comments here
      1st: Yes, we have been planning to go to Melbourne, both of us, but we started planning that trip long before we even met you. We did not plan the trip just to meet you but to organise a get-together of as many Melbourne-based MRAs as possible. Flying from Sydney to Melbourne & back, plus accommodation is not cheap and there’s no way we would spend that kind of money to fly down just to meet you.

      2nd: Regarding what you think of as TV being critical of you, the original article that we drafted was a lot more negative about you and was 100% my idea. If anything, TV persuaded me to tone it down

      3rd: Indeed, I started out not understanding what the point of apologising to Futrelle was but, after speaking to a number of people about it, I ended up agreeing that it was a good idea. I told you not long after this that I thought you should send one to him.

      And one more thing:
      Your biggest problem is that you are incapable of having a real discussion on anything at all. You only ever remember when something is positive to towards you & you completely reject anything you don’t like.

      Liked by 1 person

  4. Reblogged this on Swimming Against The Tide and commented:
    As a man who takes pride in being an independent thinker those in the MHRM simply don’t speak for me nor will I allow those in the MHRM to tell me what to think, write, speak or believe. Take great care if you decide to call me out because I do not take prisoners, suffer fools gladly nor will hesitate to expose the willful hypocrisy of those in the MHRM who claim to speak for all men.

    Liked by 1 person

    • I think you may have gotten the wrong impression. We are not attempting to speak for anyone but ourselves & those that have expressed an opinion to us about this privately. We would never attempt to tell anyone what they can or can’t say we just reserve the right to say, in public if necessary, that we don’t agree.

      The only reason we had to go into this level of detail in this case was because we initially supported them.

      Liked by 1 person

  5. Heh. I like that you guys are quick to denounce wackos who say unsupportable, hateful things that are counterproductive.

    I also read, particularly at the moment, that MHRM is interested in redressing the poor treatment of men with mental health issues.

    So far, so good, two stars, no black marks… You’re looking better than any MRA/MHRA page or group I’ve come across…

    Then the namechecking of Paul Elam, the guy who wrote an article that… wait, I’ll preface it before I state which one.

    There is a mental illness, thought incurable from pre-Freudian times through to about 1995, when the first successful therapy for it was showing great clinical results compared to the ways everyone had tried to help with it. Basically, long story short: Old method = horrendous fail, new method = epic win.

    Men are woefully under-diagnosed, and all the stats and precursors point to it being pretty evenly distributed among genders. The biggest problems with getting people treated is getting them to accept the diagnosis in the first place, because of entrenched views among those clinging to the old therapeutic model (the one that fails) basically denigrate those who have it. Well, there’s that, and also, for men in particular, the myth that it is a “female” mental illness, so basically man + illness = woosie girlyman.

    This illness has the single highest figures for suicide and self harm of all non-psychotic illnesses. It affects somewhere between 3 and 10% of humanity. Curt Kobain had it, Janis Joplin had it, I had it. The difference between them and me (other than my music being ahead of it’s time :p): I got better, not dead. Most people with this illness kill themselves, or try to. It’s one of the most important diagnostic criteria, with some clinicians insisting that those who lack these horrific symptoms don’t even qualify as having the illness. It kills men in huge numbers, as well as leading them to gaol. In fact, most men with this illness are diagnosed in gaol, because society ignores male pain, male emotion…

    It’s called Borderline Personality Disorder, and this is what Paul Elam has to say about it: http://www.avoiceformen.com/women/borderline-personality-disorder-sick-or-just-crazy-asshole/

    Now, where do I begin to point out the.. well… ehhhhh…

    Incidentally, what a way to undercut that Melburnian nimrod and his idiot tweet about women not using logic like men do, when AVFM’s own resident Psychologist ignores decades of proven, double-blind tested studies (to the point of there being multiple longitudinal studies, including one that shows most patients treated IN ANY WAY get better after 8 years) in order to state an illness is all female (Even with just me here, you can see that’s a lie), and incurable…

    There’s really not a single thing in his article that A) describes my condition; B) treats it as an actual illness and C) offers me or any other man any hope.

    I seriouslt hope he takes it down before the first MHRM guy kills himself after getting diagnosed with what Paul Elam states is basically being an evil bitch. That will pretty much fundamentally invalidate all anyone says you guys are working for…

    I’ve already been paying my dues elsewhere, trying to make room for myself to even consider associating with you guys. Not a fan of feminist dogma, which actually led to a lot of the circumstances that incubated my issues. Nothing like being a guy with self esteem issues and PTSD, growing up with a feminist single mum to provide wall-to-wall emotional invalidation, one of the most consistent features shared among those diagnosed with BPD. That, and trauma… But then, what men feel that, eh? *sigh*

    I’ll leave this here as my own character test, and see what you make of it. Feel free to ask me any questions BTW, I’m thankfully well versed in the terminology of the treatment, it’s successes personally, anecdotally and statistically.

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    • In you living in Melbourne in the 90s, there was at least 1000+ articles in the local paper (Herald Sun) where it went viral that women are 2 emotional as bosses. Google it it for yourself! You guys really need to educate yourselves and not be afraid to express the basic programming of males and females!

      Women Are More Emotional Than Men Because Of Biology
      http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2013/02/28/women-are-more-emotional-than-men-because-of-biology/

      Men are the best bosses: Women at the top are just too moody (and it’s women themselves who say so)
      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1302096/Men-best-bosses-Women-just-moody.html
      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/7938593/Workers-prefer-male-bosses.html

      :“I just feel that men are a little more flexible and less emotional than women.”
      Not One Legal Secretary Surveyed Preferred Working with Women Partners
      http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/not_one_legal_secretary_surveyed_preferred_working_with_women_lawyers_prof_/

      :”A recent study by MSNBC.com and Elle magazine reports that “three out of four women who expressed a preference said they would rather work for a man than a woman.”
      Men Are Better Bosses
      http://management.about.com/b/2008/02/05/man-are-better-bosses.htm

      Two thirds of British employees, both male and female, say they would rather work for a man than a woman, it has been found. – See more at: http://newslite.tv/2010/08/12/survey-men-make-better-bosses.html#sthash.lX4FCT9o.dpuf

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      • I’ll read the Herald Sun in hell mate, it’s be the only paper there.

        Can I offer a counter proposal? Try reading a book.

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    • Well, do u and TV have a very sheltered life or what??? Most of the population has heard this saying… Try to google it, wait, ill be nice and do it for you… WOW 79,800,000 results (0.23 seconds) from Google!

      These even a FB page on it with 8569 LIKES
      https://www.facebook.com/pages/Eyes-Never-Lie/119573764728059

      If you really want to know, i got it the idea from a feminine women website! I just went into more detail about it! If feminine women can approval this and so call men don’t like u and TV can’t… i think u both have a seriously problem and need to get some help cause u both are 2 sensitive and have VERY WEAK personal boundaries!

      For the record, this article receive most of my traffic where i had at least 100 MRA on facebook agreeing to it! No negative feedback except TV and now you! I also think you never touch a drop of alcohol before and regretted it the next day! So your sheltered views and TV, I really think you need to get out in the world more and get some help to build some character!

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      • I’m not going to play the personal attacks game with you, even though I feel it proves my point. Screaming “I’m not unstable” while swinging wild haymakers at strangers in public in no way plays into feminist stereotypes of MRA’s, does it?

        So, with that out of the way, lets go on that whole “It’s popular, it must be true” theme. I’ll rip that bandaid off you quickly. WRONG! If a billion Catholics can’t be wrong, and billions of Buddhists can’t be wrong, I guess I need to start blindly believing both religions immediately.

        If David Koresh were alive today, he’d have got more Facebook likes than your article.

        I wonder just how many Facebook likes Copernicus would have got in his day?

        Seriously, the idea that there are physiological signifiers of criminality and/or evil is so massively debunked and laughable that it wouldn’t be taken as evidence in a court of law, shit, not even in a Family Court, not even as evidence against a man, even when presented by a feminist lawyer to a feminist Judge. That’s how blatantly biased and universally disregarded your baseless statement is. Nevermind that, of course, you’d pick the photos where they’re scowling, right? So, now everyone has at least one bad photo where they have “The dark eyes of a criminal”. So we’re all criminals. Let’s call the planet a prison and move on… NEXT!

        “and need to get some help cause u both are 2 sensitive and have VERY WEAK personal boundaries!” Still playing the man and not the ball, but why not eh? Better to go down in flames than take your licks and come back stronger. Ya see, I’m not hurt by you, nor anything you’ve said, I’m merely not interested in having my researched, fact based thoughts on gender equality undercut by association with someone who is so comfortable fitting the feminist stereotype of mad, cellar-dwelling neanderthals. That’s it. No thin skin, no poor personal boundaries. I have personal boundaries that include “Not acting like an idiot in public in ways that reflect poorly on others, and damages their reputations. Sure, I’ve got drunk and done dumb things, probably a shitload more than you’d imagine, seeing as you have such a vivid mental picture of me, with my flowery “mangina” words and suchlike. Thing is, I don’t get hammered while wearing my work shirts, then take a dump on the competition’s lawn. That’s just poor form and you’d do well to man up and acknowledge that.

        Heh, finally, if my views are somehow sheltered and ignorant, then fuck, please protect me from enlightenment. Maybe stop telling me your truth, I clearly don’t deserve it 😦

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      • Oh, and to further undercut the whole “Popularity = awesome” concept you’re trying to sell: A ridiculous story claiming solar panels would drain the sun has been shared on Facebook over 200,000 times. So your article is, by your own logic, inherently less valid than the notion that solar panels will lead us to a sunless apocalypse. Well played sir. It must be hard to be so much less right than that…

        http://www.iflscience.com/environment/no-solar-panels-will-not-drain-suns-energy

        Oh, and if we wanna show that not all MRA’s are drunken, bitter misogynists, we’re better off without you publicly giving that claim any credibility. That’d be like using Mike Tyson as our mascot. You’ve soiled the brand, you gotta take a dive. Every man in a male-dominated political movement knows that, and every male board member in a company knows if he signed off on things that hurt the stock price, he may have to fall on his sword. Shit, even that’s a phrase that comes from the Roman Military, obviously the biggest bunch of “feminine manginas” to ever walk the Earth. The general who fucks up and costs his soldiers both their lives and their victory literally publicly suicides, so his poor form is shown to belong to him, and not those under him.

        If you are such a pro- all things male and anti all things girly kinda guy, then FALL ON YOUR SWORD. Be the kind of man you claim to be. Stop whinging, stop having a cry about it. No more flailing and posturing, no more desperate appeals to emotion. Sack up and go down. Acknowledge that you’re seen to be doing more harm than good to a movement you claim to support, and show your support by shutting up.

        Seriously, begging forgiveness for public fuck ups? Please, coach, don’t put me on the bench for losing the game, I was drunk, it’ll never happen again. Yup, sounds like the sort of men who are universally seen as winners. Phrases like “Take it on the chin” come to mind. Nevermind that this narrow conception of masculinity automatically loses you support from every man who’s not as big a dickhead as you, it’s also buying and delivering rounds of ammo to those in the other trench, at a time when most of what they’re firing is blanks. Way to guarantee some of your fellow men die on the front line, while simultaneously depriving us of reinforcements. Kudos, Great General, kudos!

        I may disagree with your entire bullshit hypermasculine supremacist viewpoint on reality, but I’ll defend to the death your right to say it, so we can all see it for what it is. I’ll also defend the movements right to kick you the fuck out. “Not in my name” is something Feminism doesn’t seem to understand, but it seems to have currency here… I like this place better.

        Oh, and yes, I did descend into personal attacks in the end. Because you’re worth it.

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    • We have no professional knowledge about BPD so we’d rather not make any comments about it. However, if you’d care to put your thoughts about it into writing, we’d be more than happy to give it consideration for publication.

      My view is that, the more accurate information that is out there about personality disorders, the better for everyone.

      I hope you’ll consider it.

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      • Lol, I’m thinking that was an odd double post and in the wrong thread too… Wish I could say I haven’t done similarly interesting things :p

        And yeah, I’m working on it. Got all the content (well, all the most relevant content, I’m presuming you’re after something under 20 gazillion words :p) done, and mostly edited, now it’s just hunting down links and getting my partner to proofread it and help with the basic HTML that seems to be expected of all of humanity now. So wish I hadn’t missed that memo :/

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      • Actually it’s the right thread but WordPress is a bit weird when it comes to nesting comments. I replied to your first comment but it has appeared way down here. Sorry for the confusion though.

        “yeah, I’m working on it.”

        Great! Can’t wait to see it.

        If you are going to submit it to us for publication there’s no need to worry about HTML, plain text is fine.

        Also, if you can include a short (say 50-ish word) byline, written in the 3rd person, that’d be great.

        You can read all of our submission guidelines at https://mensrightssydney.com/submitarticle/ in case you haven’t already.

        Cool, really looking forward to seeing what you come up with. Cheers.

        Oh & yes, if you could keep it under 19 gazillion words, we’d appreciate it 😉

        Like

      • I did, and I posted it, but I think it needs more… something… All my paragraphs look to have been amalgamated into one giant, creepy manifesto-style uniparagraph, AKA The Scary Wall Of Text. I’m guessing between us we can work out how to fix that up, but yeah, probably best not to post it in that state :/

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    • Thanks Suzy.

      As I wrote in the article,”Peter” is not a bad guy, not by any stretch of the imagination, & he has a genuine desire to help men & boys in trouble. This is why this is a very difficult & sad time for us. We absolutely hated to do this to a guy who’s heart was so obviously in the right place, but he backed us into a corner & simply left us no alternative.

      It’s a pretty sombre mood here at Men’s Rights Sydney at the moment so we really appreciate your support.

      Like

    • There is always 2 sides to a story, scroll above to read my side of the story where TV is lying to you!

      Like

  6. There’s no substitute for meeting someone in person. Nothing else will do. Is your prospective MHRA peer an idiot? A child? A woman? A dick? Five minutes face-to-face will give you more information than a year of emails.

    If they don’t have a well-established online persona (like the people at AVFM, for instance), you have to do handshake and coffee at the very, very least.

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    • I absolutely agree. The problem in this case was that we were separated by a distance of over 1000km & since, unlike most feminist groups, we get diddily squat in the way of funding, we have to run all of this in our spare time & out of our own pockets. I’m afraid that we had neither the time nor the cash to visit with him face to face.

      We will not be making this mistake again in future though. We are currently implementing guidelines that will ensure that any new groups that wish to associate with us have thoroughly proven themselves before we will endorse or assist them.

      Like

      • More lies… Defender (leader of MRS) spoke to me the week before my drunken episode (i guess u never drank way to much and can’t remember what u did the night before) that we was coming down to see me within the next couple months!

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    • If this is going to be made public, please read above my side of the story above! TV isn’t telling the whole story!

      TV is the kind of guy that u work with that is 2 afraid to upset people and if he does, he will do anything to fix his relationship with them! I apologised more than once to most of MRM including avoiceformen, and choose to step down like anyone that has done something stupid.while drinking (Mel Gibson, Kiefer Sutherland, etc…).

      Basically i haven’t drunk for ages, it was my birthday, drank way to much, came home, click on a link that took me to manboobs, read what he was saying about the MRM that i knew and being wasted, what i said was due to intoxication (i guess TV is super nice when he drinks and when people are picking no his mates, he runs away).. I didn’t remember doing it until someone from the MRM brought it up! Memory came back the next couple days, My goal while being drunk was to tell him what i thought of him from an anonymous email address!

      Defender and I agree to sweep it under the rug and I was happy to step down but TV can’t let this go 2 months later… I agreed with MRS that i wouldn’t post any articles unless it was approved by them! I was trying my best to find someone to run the site in Melbourne where TV was harassing me everyday for a whole week about it, so in the end i turn the site off! He made up that i didn’t want to give the site to anyone as it was written above WHICH IS A TOTALLY LIE! I was getting at least 500 unique visitors after just a month, I wanted the MRM to grow, not die down here in Melbourne!

      Like

      • that’s 500 unique visitors a day! I was aiming to have the site more busy than avoiceformen within 2ish years and was proposing to work full time down here in Melbourne on the MRM this year!

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    • And you agree with 100% of the articles you read online?? it was only ONE article that was the issue! You can’t expect everyone to agree with all your articles where this article was the most viral article i have written! About 70-80% of my unique visitors were reading this article where all the other MRM totally agreed with it expect TV!

      The article was “The eyes never lie. The evil eyes of a feminist. ” It basically showed pictures of well known feminists that had very dark eyes. When someone is at peace, their eyes glow and when they are full of hate like feminists are, they are very very dark. It’s the same as criminals, their eyes are very dark (crazy eyes)! This is a morale I was brought up on and most of the population knows about and basic logical most of us forget! TV had never heard of this saying and think this one article should be taken down even tho it was the only article anyone in the MRM had fault with. I don’t expect everyone to agree with some of my articles!

      I was pulling 500 unique visitors a day after just a month so i believe my articles where fine and as well as receiving 99% positive feedback! I event received donations which MRS hasn’t received any after 8 months!

      Like

      • Having read all your… replies to this article, well, it only confirms my respect for the call being made to disassociate you from the cause, at least insofar as it is represented on this page. Really, your best effort at undermining the lamentable flood of irrational, circular arguments that come from the Feminist sphere on an hourly basis was to post pictures of them having eyes that look “the same as criminals, their eyes are very dark (crazy eyes)!”?

        Here is honestly where I’m going to stop being a snarky prick and suggest some sort of combination of night classes in creative writing, complimented by some serious therapy. I deeply believe both would do you a world of good mate. I wish you all the best in getting the help you need.

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      • We have decided to let him have his say & allow people to make up their own minds on this. As long as he remains relatively civil & doesn’t devolve into pure abuse or keep spamming us beyond any reason, we won’t block his comments.

        Although we hated to do have to do it, we are not ashamed of anything we have done & we have nothing to fear from him telling the story as he sees it.

        Like

      • I’d never suggest you do otherwise. Giving people a rope and watching what they do with it is best in my view… Silencing critics is as impossible as it is inadvisable.

        Like

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